Research Log: Page 62

Post #1221 — SillyB, Aug 16, 2022

• DRAGONKZ said: Sorry another question, how is the bottom of the marquee held in place?
• My cabinet seems to have a bracket with a screw in the middle but all the other pictures on here don’t seem to have this, and give the impression that the marquee sits down behind the timber section where the speakers are?
• Mine seems to sit on this bracket in the middle of it as it’s a U shape? Click to expand…

Post #1222 — DonPanetta, Aug 25, 2022

• Friend of mine who is a facebook pleb sent me a link to a forsale post where someone was selling a Capcom Big Blue ‘New Game’ marquee

Images:

Post #1223 — DRAGONKZ, Sep 6, 2022

• I’ll surely cop some flack, but has anyone on here put a 27/29” monitor setup in their Gen 2 big blue?
• The “fantastic” one I had shipped over also has tube issues amongst its long list of other problems
• I’ve got access to 26” MS8 and 27/29” MS9 and 2931 setups, and am weighing up chucking one of them in.
• A 2931 would give me a tri-res setup and help give a naomi2 setup a better picture.
• If anyone has done it what was needed bracket wise or modification wise to make it fit?

Serial/tag references:

• Gen 2 — _ but has anyone on here put a 27/29” monitor setup in their Gen 2 big blue? The “fantastic” one I had shipped over also…_

Post #1224 — DuffCon, Sep 6, 2022

• checkout:
• JP’s CAPCOM Big Blue Refresh
• Hey guys - wanted to share some finished pics of my Big Blue refresh … When I first got it, it had been converted to a Sammy Sports Shooting game… the Control Panel had been hacked up so I had to scratch build a new… the cabinet itself was in decent shape but one of the top corners had…
• forums.arcade-museum.com

Post #1225 — DonPanetta, Sep 10, 2022

• Noticed another oddity Capcom Big Blue while doing some research on another oddity by Jaleco and 3-KOAM. This Big Blue seems very much like a Dynamo manufactured Big Blue. Until you get to the back and notice the tag is drastically different and has a different model number scheme to Dynamos. The model number seems very similar to the Dark Stalkers cab i posted a few posts back.

Images:

Post #1226 — DonPanetta, Sep 10, 2022

• Might have just my own question in my mind here. Posting this theory for posterity.
• Notice that there are just as many first and second generation Big Blue cabinets where the Dynamo ID tag say “Manufactured by Dynamo” and there are equally a number of them that say “Assembled By Dynamo”. Seems to me these rather obscure Big Blue cabinets were being cut at another facility; some being assembled by Dynamo, some being assembled at a plant created by Capcom and others being assembled by an unknown third party.
• One important thing to notice with the second generation big blue cabinets is that 3-KOAM is completely out of the picture by then. This is possibly when things began to go down-hill for 3-KOAM as we know thanks to court filings that they were desperately trying to get what they called “bad debt” off of their books in 1997 through California courts. (Makes you wonder if Capcom cut them off for supplying Data East with Fighters History cabs?)

Serial/tag references:

• tag say "Manufactured by Dynamo" and there are e — and second generation Big Blue cabinets where the Dynamo ID tag say “Manufactured by Dynamo” and there are equally a num…

Post #1227 — DuffCon, Sep 10, 2022

• I’ve often wondered what it would take to track down a dynamo or 3 Koam employee. I know @Kidkaos ran across a former employee with a ton of big blues, but I didn’t see further detail.

Post #1228 — DonPanetta, Sep 11, 2022

• DonPanetta said: One important thing to notice with the second generation big blue cabinets is that 3-KOAM is completely out of the picture by then. This is possibly when things began to go down-hill for 3-KOAM as we know thanks to court filings that they were desperately trying to get what they called “bad debt” off of their books in 1997 through California courts. (Makes you wonder if Capcom cut them off for supplying Data East with Fighters History cabs?) Click to expand…

Post #1229 — DuffCon, Sep 11, 2022

• DonPanetta said: I don’t want to drag this away from the rest of the Big Blue thread but a little more on this theory. Click to expand…

Post #1230 — sosage, Sep 11, 2022

• I was (awkwardly) deeply invested in cracking the “What are all the official SF2 cabs” mystery what feels like a decade ago now. It’s not easy. There’s a lack of official documentation and 99% of information is in the back panel tags and word-of-mouth. Capcom being Capcom, and the game industry being the game industry, even folks who were there can have conflicting info.
• Good luck! Hopefully you dig up some information that gets everything straight. And I agree, I think it’s relevant to the thread.

Post #1231 — DonPanetta, Sep 11, 2022

• sosage said: I was (awkwardly) deeply invested in cracking the “What are all the official SF2 cabs” mystery what feels like a decade ago now. It’s not easy. There’s a lack of official documentation and 99% of information is in the back panel tags and word-of-mouth. Capcom being Capcom, and the game industry being the game industry, even folks who were there can have conflicting info.
• Good luck! Hopefully you dig up some information that gets everything straight. And I agree, I think it’s relevant to the thread. Click to expand…

Post #1232 — anoon, Sep 11, 2022

• DonPanetta said: The waters to this discussion are indeed a bit murky but I think the little bit of documentation where available is quite solid actually. What isn’t very strong is the circumstances surrounding the models, how they were offered, if they were region specific, professional alliances falling apart etc. I’ll try to make this brief with some bullet points:
• What we don’t know and Conjecture:
• The street fighter II World Warrior Mystery: Street Fighter II World Warrior is quite easily the murkiest of the series, with little to no official World Warrior cabinet documentation out there. The only “official looking” World Warrior i remember seeing came in a Dynamo HS-2 with Wico microswitch bat top sticks. I don’t recall any specific serial or model number ( i really need sit down one day to do more research on this).
• Ordering a specific cabinet model: We do know there was a window of time when both Dynamo and 3-KOAM supplied official cabinets for Street Fighter II Champion Edition. There have been quite a few dedicated 3KOAM Champion Edition cabinets in the wild to support this (I currently have one). We do not know how long that competitive window lasted. We do not know if you were able to order a specific manufacturer’s cabinet or if Capcom shipped you whatever was on hand. We do not know if ordering a specific cabinet was also region specific considering 3-KOAM was stationed in California and Dynamo being in Texas.
• The rift between Capcom and Dynamo: All we know about this is that at some point it happened. There have been some rumors that Capcom was frustrated very early on that Dynamo cabinets were so easily available on the open market, making bootlegging Street Fighter II “dedicated factory conversion” cabinets quite easy. I can’t imagine this was a bigger deal to them than the flow of bootleg PCBs you can put in any cabinet tho. We do know through interviews that operators expressed their frustration with Capcom at trade shows and flat out told them to their face that if they had to, they’d just bootleg Street Fighter II. There’s also the belief that Capcom was frustrated with the pace of Dynamo’s production times.
• The rift between Capcom and 3-KOAM: It’s safe to assume this rift did indeed happen with Capcom either finding another third party to cut and assemble Big Blue cabinets or they built their own production facility. We don’t know however, is how this rift happened. Court documents reveal that 3-KOAM was struggling to stay afloat as early as 1997. By the time capcom unveiled the CPSII hardware and Super Street Fighter II game in late 1993 it seems production of the second generation Big Blue was in full swing at Dynamo and 3-KOAM was out of the picture.
• We also do know that Capcom USA lawyers did mention 3-KOAM was producing cabinets for Data East in the legal battle over Fighter’s History. The conjecture here is that the rift may have started over Fighter’s History; But this is just conjecture at this point. This is a very strange issue to end a working relationship on especially considering Capcom ordered Dynamo to clone the 3KOAM K-2 in order to speed up production of Mercs. Some of us here did discover there are both 3-KOAM and Dynamo manufactured Mercs cabinets (This means the Big Blue is not the first cabinet design made by both Dynamo and 3-KOAM). We do know that the 3-KOAM design is the original design as it shares nearly the same exact control panel design 3-KOAM used on Data East’s 1987 game GhostBusters.
• What we know:
• Street fighter II Champion edition did in fact come in a (slightly modified) second-gen Dynamo HS-5 and a number of later Champion Edition cabinets did come available in 3KOAM K-3 Z-Back cabinets. We do know there was a window of time when both Dynamo and 3-KOAM supplied official cabinets for Street Fighter II Champion Edition both in standard and Deluxe Big Blue style cabinets. There have been quite a few dedicated late stage Champion edition 3KOAM in the wild to support this. We do know that there was an official Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting Kit for Dynamo HS-5 cabinets. We also do know there was no Dynamo model number change for Street Fighter II: Hyper Fighting. Suggesting they either continued to assemble Hyper Fighting in the same Champion Edition cabinet without changing the model number or they were not supplying HS-5 factory conversions of Hyper Fighting.
• Street Fighter II Turbo: Hyper Fighting was officially shown off in a 3KOAM Z-Back at the AMOA trade show in October 1 of 1992.
• In interviews by Capcom USA staff, we do know that Dynamo was having production issues in getting cabinets out to fulfill capcom orders. By 1991 the Dynamo HS-2 and HS-5 were easily the de-facto conversion cabinet of the era. Dynamo was cutting cabinets for just about every video game producer with the exception of Atari and Midway - Both of which would relent and tailor their conversion kits to fit Dynamo cabinets right around the same time.
• This is kind of all over the place. I’m not a good writer. I tried to make this brief and i failed again. Click to expand…

Measurements:

• 2 in

Post #1233 — DuffCon, Sep 11, 2022

• @DonPanetta dont feel bad at all! Speaking as a fan of these cpans and everything involved, I find it all fascinating!

Post #1234 — sosage, Sep 11, 2022

• I was absolutely convinced that Z-Backs were either designed to be Hyper Fighting cabs, or Hyper Fighting was designated to be its main cabinet type. Every Z-Back I’ve owned was a Hyper Fighting at one point, the Big Blue version of the marquee is not common (and the art suggests it wasn’t really designed for the Big Blue but to be cut for the Z-Back/regular marquee size), the AMOA show you mentioned, etc. I remember BITD seeing rows of Z-Backs with just Hyper Fighting.
• The same thing with the Dynamo HS-9 and X-Men Children of the Atom. I swear I only saw that cabinet brand new with COTA. But none of this is hard evidence. And I kinda gave up figuring it out.
• I look forward to whatever else you dig up.

Post #1235 — DuffCon, Sep 12, 2022

• sosage said: I was absolutely convinced that Z-Backs were either designed to be Hyper Fighting cabs, or Hyper Fighting was designated to be its main cabinet type. Every Z-Back I’ve owned was a Hyper Fighting at one point, Click to expand…

Images:

Post #1236 — DonPanetta, Sep 12, 2022

• DuffCon said: I have a zback(3-koam k3) here with original black vinyl. Was setup for Area51, it has a different power setup from other CE zbacks I’ve seen; has a regular screw terminal power setup, instead of a AT-style power supply. It doesn’t have a cut out for that PS. We know from 3-koam sales advertising that it was sold like this as a generic:
• JAMMA Cabinets - 3 Koam (Video Game) - USA
• The Arcade Flyer Archive (TAFA) presents JAMMA Cabinets, a coin-operated Video Game by 3 Koam (USA)
• flyers.arcade-museum.com

Images:

Post #1237 — DuffCon, Sep 12, 2022

• I can get a few more when I get home. Here’s one I found:
• The other main difference is a shelf mounted 25” monitor, instead of frame. Same as a TMNT cab. It came with a flat front CP like in the sales flyer. I put on this SFII one.

Images:

Post #1238 — DonPanetta, Sep 12, 2022

• sosage said: I was absolutely convinced that Z-Backs were either designed to be Hyper Fighting cabs, or Hyper Fighting was designated to be its main cabinet type. Every Z-Back I’ve owned was a Hyper Fighting at one point, the Big Blue version of the marquee is not common (and the art suggests it wasn’t really designed for the Big Blue but to be cut for the Z-Back/regular marquee size), the AMOA show you mentioned, etc. I remember BITD seeing rows of Z-Backs with just Hyper Fighting.
• The same thing with the Dynamo HS-9 and X-Men Children of the Atom. I swear I only saw that cabinet brand new with COTA. But none of this is hard evidence. And I kinda gave up figuring it out.
• I look forward to whatever else you dig up. Click to expand…

Post #1239 — DonPanetta, Sep 12, 2022

• DuffCon said: I can get a few more when I get home. Here’s one I found:
• The other main difference is a shelf mounted 25” monitor, instead of frame. Same as a TMNT cab. It came with a flat front CP like in the sales flyer. I put on this SFII one. Click to expand…

Images: